Legacy of the Land

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Jaime Roque: Okay, we're coming into the, I think I can go in. Well, let's go in and sit down. Just take this moment in how many people have passed through here. OK, here we go. Thank you for letting me come into your home and your place, and I respect you and your place. Thank you. I respect your land and thank you for allowing me to visit.

As I sit here, surrounded by the traces of a distant past, I can’t help but feel a world away from the everyday hustle. I’m at Wupatki National Monument in Arizona. Out here, there's no phone buzzing, no emails to answer. Out here, there’s finally space—to breathe, to think, to really connect. This place, so vast and seemingly solitary, holds a powerful link to a time and people whose legacy is still alive in every stone and every gust of wind. the significance of what this land represents—the stories, the lives, the history —still lingers in the air.

Hello, my name is Jaime and welcome to Recurrent. For me, visiting Wupatki is more than just another visit to a historical landmark—it’s deeply personal. My mom, who found so much peace in the outdoors, made her last big trip here when she was still healthy enough to travel. It was a trip that I couldn't make with her, but now I can almost feel her beside me here, reminding me of what’s important

As I walk these trails, though, it’s clear this place holds meaning way beyond just my own story. Wupatki is a site with deep historical and cultural roots. To really get a sense of its importance, I talked with Frank Matero, Professor of Architecture and Historic Preservation who heads up the Historic Preservation Department at the Weitzman School of Design at the University of Pennsylvania. He also is the director for The Center for Architectural Conservation. Frank joined me remotely from his home in Pennsylvania. We were set to meet at Wupatki when I visited, but due to unforeseen circumstances, we couldn’t connect in person. Despite this, our conversation was just as insightful. Frank’s work at Wupatki has been key in helping to preserve its stories. He’s been working closely with the National Park Service’s Vanishing Treasures Program.

Frank Matero: Early on, the National Park Service certainly recognized the site's importance for its archaeological significance and, um, in fact designated Wupatki a National Monument in 1924. Both the archaeological evidence and the native oral histories identify identified as a crossroads, um, for several cultural groups that were in the greater, uh, region, um, many of the objects, artifacts found as well as the architectural styles all suggest, uh, a mingling of groups, uh, Um, at Wupatki, so a very significant place

J. Roque: Located in northern Arizona, Wupatki was a thriving community for the ancestral Puebloan people over a millennium ago. The climate was cooler and wetter than it is today. And as the community grew, small scattered homes gave way to larger pueblos, surrounded by smaller pueblos and pit houses.The term 'pueblo' refers to both the settlements and the Native American tribes of the Pueblo peoples in the Southwestern United States. People farmed and traded all kinds of exotic items like turquoise, shell jewelry, copper bells, and even parrots. Wupatki really blossomed as a meeting place for different cultures, and you can see this in the ballcourt they built—it’s similar to those found in Mesoamerica and is actually the northernmost example of this kind of structure. Wupatki is mainly known today for a 104-room pueblo, which is a kind of building, and which stands as a testament to the ingenuity of its builders. It’s the largest free standing pueblo in Northern Arizona, and the tallest part of this structure rises about three stories high.

Matero: It's sitting in that very small red canyon. The, the architecture of the Pueblo was made of the same stone. It rises out of the canyon.

J. Roque: Picture a small apartment or office building in your community today. Like some of those, this pueblo had a community room and a ceremonial ball court—places for people to gather and play. Now, while it might not soar into the sky like a skyscraper over 800 years ago, this was an impressive feat of engineering. Constructed without modern tools, the ancestral Puebloans used stone, soil, and water to create a structure that still commands attention.

As I walked through Wupatki, I was struck by how seamlessly the walls, made from the local Moenkopi sandstone with that distinct red color, blend right into the desert landscape. It feels like the whole place is inviting you to relax and feel at home in nature.

Matero: 
And then in that great black sand desert, um, due to the volcanic eruption, uh, um, in the 12th century.

J. Roque: Frank is talking about the impact of the eruption of Sunset Crater, about 17 miles south of Wupatki. After that event, a lot of families left that area to look for a new place to settle because their homes were lost to ash and lava. The initial draw to the area we now know as Wupatki was due to the fertile conditions created by that Volcanic eruption, the volcanic ash helped retain moisture in the soil.

But an inevitable change happened.

The Pueblo Wupatki was abandoned around the late 13th century, likely due to a combination of factors. As the population grew, the demand for resources like water, firewood, and fertile land increased. Over time, these essential resources may have been depleted, making it hard for people to survive and prompting them to seek out more sustainable living conditions elsewhere.

And then there was climate change. Over time, the climate in the region became drier and less predictable. And For many Indigenous cultures, movement and migration are deeply rooted in spiritual beliefs. Leaving Wupatki could have been influenced by these cultural practices, seeing migration as a way to live in harmony with the land. 
Despite these challenges, the legacy of Wupatki endures.

Matero: But, you know, all of these sites are ancestral sites to, uh, contemporary, uh, native American communities. So each is unique in its own way in terms of its relationship to those communities. Um, and in this case we have 13, uh, acknowledged, affiliated, uh, uh, native American, uh, uh, pueblos. Who, um, who, who claim ancestry.

Kevin Cooeyate: Intro in Native Zuni language

Hello and good afternoon. Uh, my name is Kevin Cooeyate. I come from the Pueblo of Zuni. Um, or, um. How we, we reference the Pueblo in our language is Halona, Itiwana. Uh, I also represent the son and child of a Corn clans. And, uh, appreciate the time, uh, that, and the space for being here. Again, going, going back into, uh, how, how I see Wupaki, uh, as an, as an importance culturally is, is it's a part of our history in the physical aspect of where we migrate, where our people migrated.

J. Roque: I had been in communication with Kevin up until my trip to Wupatki, then suddenly, radio silence from him. We had originally planned to meet up at Wupatki for him to give me a tour. I was worried but still felt confident that somehow we would meet or at least talk through Zoom. When Kevin and I couldn't connect as planned, I decided to tour Wupatki and its surroundings by myself.

Exploring the site alone turned out to be exactly what I needed. I left Wupatki feeling refreshed and happy from the experience, yet a little nervous, as I was unsure of who I would interview next. As I sat in downtown Flagstaff, eating pizza and reflecting on the day, my phone buzzed with a text message. It was Kevin. He wrote that he was on his way to Flagstaff to meet me. I let out a huge sigh of relief! I met up with Kevin to really understand the cultural and spiritual significance of Wupatki. Kevin was friendly, respectful, and brought a wisdom beyond his years. He wore his Ancestral Lands

Conservation core beanie and looked every bit the outdoorsman. I felt an immediate sense of comfort. His presence put me at ease, and it was clear that he was deeply connected to the land,its stories, and its energy.

He is a program manager at Ancestral Lands conservation corps, a program that engages underrepresented Indigenous youth and young adults in conservation service programs that reconnect participants to the land, their cultural heritage, and their traditions. The program's vision is to lead their Nations back to ecological and cultural well-being. When we spoke, Kevin made it clear that Wupatki isn't just some old ruins—the site is still very much alive.

Cooeyate: The breath of the universe resides here at Wupatki National Monument. The blowhole is the epicenter of life for all living beings. The rocks, mortar, uh, and empty rooms of the Pueblo are all living.

J. Roque: Okay, let's put my head over the blowhole and see what happens. Ooh, I can feel that. Didn't blow my hat off, but I can definitely feel it. See if you can hear it. I was able to explore the blowhole myself at Wupatki. Not knowing what it was or what it represented yet, it was still impressive to feel and experience. When Kevin talks about the blowhole, he's talking about a natural vent. Wupatki National Monument is full of earth-cracks, fissures, and vents—some of which connect to a vast underground system of caverns spanning over seven billion cubic feet in volume. These cracks and vents breathe with the earth, pulling in air overnight and releasing it during the day. Locals often refer to them as “blowholes” because of the noticeable movement of air in and out.

Cooeyate: And, you know, I don't know the exact science behind the blowhole, but for me, that's the knowledge that I can, I can obtain to this day. Culturally, I see it existing because it's, it's, it's, it's the breath. What we also call, it's, it's our windpipe.

J. Roque: The blowhole at Wupatki isn’t just a natural wonder—it’s a living connection between earth and sky, a sacred breath that ties the past to the present. For the Hopi, Zuni, Diné, and Southern Paiute peoples, this vent holds deep spiritual significance. The Zuni call it “Where Mother Earth’s breath is felt,” seeing it as a powerful spot for seeking strength, meditation, and prayer.

Speaking with Kevin really highlighted for me the deep spiritual connection Native American communities have with Wupatki. That’s why preserving it is so important—it’s about keeping that link to the past alive so future generations can tap into the wisdom and spirit of this place. But like so many ancient sites, Wupatki faces real and evolving threats that could put its survival at risk. Here’s Frank Matero again

Matero: Well, look, like so many National Historic Sites, Uh, Wupatki suffers from insufficient funding, uh, from staff shortages and from deferred maintenance. Um, you know, ruins conservation and management is a, is a deceptive paradox, right? I mean, you have to do a lot to give the appearance of doing nothing and, um, Wupatki's no, no different.

So the illusion of no change is a difficult feat, especially for standing ruins that require continual upkeep, but all, all archaeological sites, all ancestral sites have this common problem, um, in that they are very difficult to maintain, uh, as, as, as all standing ruins. uh, because of the nature of their incompleteness, they're in a fragmented form. Um, and of course the, uh, exposure at Wupatki is quite severe, the weather quite severe, um, and all of this takes a toll on, um, what seems to be, um, immutable.

J. Roque: To understand how to protect Wupatki for the future, Frank and his team have really dug into the site’s history.

Matero: We use historical, uh, what's called legacy data, historical photos, uh, records. We look at past climate data. Um, we look at how the site has been maintained over the years. What, uh What kinds of treatments were used? Were they successful? Um, we, we are using time, time lapse or time sequence photography to see where the snow falls, where the rain collects.

Like human beings, each site is, is distinctive and unique in its own specific way. These sites may share materials, they may share, uh, construction methods. In fact, many of these sites are more, many of these standing, uh, ancestral Puebloan sites are more alike than they're different, but context is everything. And their specific, um, context, uh, their microenvironmental context really determines how they are going to respond to this change.

J. Roque: Could you share some of the specific preservation challenges that Wupaki faces and how these challenges influence the strategies you and your team employ?

Matero: The effects of a changing climate are a new challenge. Uh, and one that all conservation, um, professionals are facing now, um, and we're all scrambling to understand the effects. I mean, part of the problem is that we've not done a very good job of understanding how these sites have Performed over time since their, their designation, and we need to catch up. Um, and this has been foundational to our current work, uh, through the Getty Foundation, um, grant to, uh, define a framework that considers, uh, what we call site vulnerability, uh, in terms of the materials that the buildings are made of, how they're constructed. Uh, their environmental context, which of course includes climate, Um, it includes previous treatments and how the Park Service has maintained the site since the 1920s. Um, and finally, uh, climate change, a changing climate.

The regional climate response, as the climate scientists know, is that the region will be getting hotter and drier. and then with seasonal moisture that is occurring now, uh, with greater intensity. So I think, um, these variations in, In, uh, in the climate, um, what we have to think about is how these might challenge and push the threshold of the performance of the architecture as it was designed, built, used, uh, over time, you know, when Wupatki was, was built, when it was used, maintained, um, uh, it was done in a, in a, in a, in a predictable climate. You know, climate science is anticipatory science. We don't know what we need to know, and we don't know, um, you know, where it's going, because our data sets up till now, um, are not reflective of what's to come. Um, and so that's been really the biggest challenge.

J. Roque: In addition to the traditional considerations like how materials age. Climate change brings new challenges that demand innovative approaches, making collaboration between scientists, conservationists, and Native communities more crucial than ever. Programs like Ancestral Lands conservation corp, where Kevin serves as program manager, and the National Parks Service’s Vanishing Treasures program where Frank works are essential in addressing these challenges. Vanishing Treasures, in particular, was established in 1998 to tackle the unique issues faced by archaeological sites and vernacular architecture in the American West, especially those not in active use. Recognizing that not all historic sites are alike, the program tailors specific conservation strategies to the needs of each site. These sites require special care and attention, not only due to their historical significance but also because of their complex relationships with local communities. Kevin explained how the needs and beliefs of the local communities can sometimes be at odds with traditional preservation practice.

Cooeyate: Although a dwelling hasn't been occupied for quite some time, that there is still a presence there. There is still a spirit there. There is still energy there. Perhaps the purpose of why, why the people left or why there's certain structures that, that shouldn't be, you know, rehabilitated. There is a notion of respecting whether it's a structure or something of cultural significance to let Mother Earth take in those resources once more as a way of coming to full circle or coming to full term of its existence. Much like our purpose, I feel as being a physical self. We don't have much time. We pray for God a longevity, don't get me wrong, but you know, we ultimately have that expiration.

J. Roque: For Kevin, the buildings are alive and therefore one thought to honor that presence, that spirit and energy that is still there, would be to let certain buildings crumble and return to the earth. The collaboration and consultation with local Native communities is a vital and delicate part of balancing conservation needs with the personal stories, history, and spiritual connections that tie a site to the people who’ve called it home for centuries.

J. Roque: I asked Frank how he balances the physical conservation of the structures with the need to respect and honor the cultural connections:

Matero: Well, the answer is a simple one you you do it through consultation. You do it through discussion and listening Um for far too long the power imbalance Has been that, um, you know, the designated stewards, the National Park Service or, uh, other agencies have primarily felt the need to have the responsibility to answer all the questions and, um, through the process of consultation, um, I think we can achieve a much more equitable and sustainable way of managing, conserving and managing these sites. And it's honestly for ancestral sites, it's required by law. So I think, you know, the legislation Uh, in reaching out to, to cultural partners has been, uh, a godsend

J. Roque: During our chat, Frank said something that really made me think

Matero: I think it's very important in the process, um, you talk about cultural sensitivity, um, that, that is all the difference between, um, calling something a site and calling it a place. A place has meaning to, you know, attendant communities, um, who, who claim it as an ancestral site.

J. Roque: Involving those communities with ancestral ties to a site turns ruins into a living, breathing place. But what does this consultation process look like in practice? Frank gave me an example.

Matero: The request that was made in the, in our case, from the engineering team who wanted to take cores of the walls for structural, uh, calculations and although it would be the very best way to get the data that was needed from a scientific professional viewpoint, it was not the best, um, for Native partners who felt that that, that form of investigation was very invasive and it was harmful. So in the process of consultation, we backed off from that request and, uh, found other means less destructive, in fact, non destructive, uh, to get the data.

J. Roque: Preserving a site this way is a huge effort. And it demands a lot of resources. That’s where partnerships, like the one with Getty, have been a game-changer. Getty's support has brought resources that are usually hard to come by in conservation work. This has allowed the team at Wupatki to develop and implement a comprehensive conservation plan over three years—a process that most grant projects just can’t afford.

Matero: You know, we rarely have these kinds of resources that the Foundation provided to take a big step back and have the luxury of thinking through something like a model framework. You know, usually, and particularly Service's case, it's hurry up and fix it. We need to come up with a solution, a solution now. This really gave us the time. And the resources to put a team together.

What I can say secondarily is that, um, because archaeological sites are also of, uh, have been for many years of great interest to the Getty Conservation Institute, the GCI, we've discussed partnerships in terms of bringing their expertise into the And the need for greater analysis of the materials of the site, in which these materials are changing, uh, in the face of a climate.

J. Roque: Working together, Getty and the preservation team at Wupatki have unlocked new opportunities for in-depth analysis and a clearer understanding of the site’s materials and preservation needs. Frank told me ab out some exciting work their doing integrating traditional knowledge and empowering native communities as stewards of this important site. it’s about respecting and revitalizing the skills and wisdom that have been passed down through generations

Matero: Yeah. Uh, well, you know, we, we're, we're still exploring this, um, relationship between traditional skills. And what conservation brings as its own methodology and set of tools and approaches. Again, why this was such an important project for me personally. I mean, not only were we partnering with Ancestral Lands Conservancy, which is responsible for bringing Native youth to these sites and, um, Instructing them in traditional ways, uh, and with traditional materials. what we wanted to do was, was look at that and see how it could intersect with both conservation principles and, and where necessary conservation, um, Practices and, and materials and methods.

Roque: Wupatki is made up of three materials: stone, soil,, and water. As a result, one of the best ways to stabilize, preserve, and conserve the site is to use those ingredients, particularly soil and stone.

But we want to, uh, obviously pay attention to the authenticity of the site and not to add or remove anything, um, that was placed there by the original builders. Very important. Uh, so the question was, how could we utilize skill sets related to traditional, uh, uh, earth and mortar, uh, methods, um, stone laying methods? For example, a wall that might be leaning or a wall that is detaching or voids have built up over time from from water intrusion.

J. Roque: One way they do it is by working with engineering partners from the University of Mino, who use an earthen grouting technique that leaves the cavities of the walls undisturbed.

J. Roque: Back with Kevin, who both works on the site and accesses it as an ancestral site, I understood why this collaborative approach to preservation is so valuable.

Cooeyate: I see those, those, those spaces, those sites, you know, as a, as, as cherished, cherished, you know, treasures because not only, you know, are they a part of our, our history to some degree, definitely personal stories and personal spaces are in fact a part of our history, but that's the learning experience I'm undergoing this, you know, what exactly is a part of our, our cultural history.

J. Roque: Kevin and members of the Zuni tribe know this cultural history from their prayers and the oral tradition of storytelling. And it’s powerful for him to be able to return to these places, pray at them, and live out these same stories. He explained to me how he uses the site. . Cooeyate: At least from the Zuni perspective, we do, uh, do initial offerings and a lot of, uh, knowledge that is taken away from, uh, perhaps visits is, is, um, again just through the spiritual connection, whether it's a sensation. Answers are, are, are given, like, mentally. I don't know if that makes sense, but it's like it's like meditation, right? Like you're trying to you're trying to seek that point in that meditation that Zen, that Zen moment, if you will. It's, it's It's almost like that for myself whenever I come across a site, or especially when I'm working with the site. Uh, and definitely it does most likely occur when I'm alone.

J. Roque: In these sacred moments, it’s clear that Wupatki is more than just an archaeological site. It’s a living place, full of energy and connections that go beyond time. Preserving Wupatki isn’t just about saving stones and walls—it’s about protecting that link to the past, the connection to the people who once lived here and accessing their wisdom. It’s making sure future generations can stand here and feel the same connection to history that Kevin feels, and that I’m feeling now.

Cooeyate: And so they can't explain it, uh, but ultimately what we know is like there, there, there is a transfer of knowledge. There is a, there is a transfer of that, you know, of that, uh, that mutual, mutual, You know, existence, whether you want something positive, you know, you'll, you'll get that same positive reaction or whether you're, you're in a tense, in a tense mode, you're going to, you're going to get that, receive that back.

J. Roque: I don't know, it's just, something about, I mean, out in nature and learning about a place. Something about this land also still being undeveloped, untouched, just how things were meant to be, I guess. But, I just feel incredibly grateful to feel, what, there's a feeling here. I can't explain it, but it's just, you feel, at least I feel at peace. I feel connected to nature. On episode one I talked about losing my mom, and just kind of visiting places that, you know, the last time my mom was in Flagstaff I couldn't be here. And so, even just knowing that She was in that city, knowing that she loved this type of stuff makes me feel connected to her. I'm continuing that legacy of, okay, mom, you gave me the love of nature, of visiting places, new places, being adventurous, her and my dad. And so I feel like I'm, Continuing that as well. I just feel connected to them. I feel so incredibly grateful just to be able to do this.

J. Roque: As we face challenges like climate change and the inevitable passage of time, the importance of preserving cultural heritage at places like Wupatki becomes even clearer. This place might appear empty and abandoned today, but it’s far from forgotten. There are thirteen Native communities that hold deep ties to Wupatki—countless stories, lives, and families are connected to this land. Even though it is no longer physically occupied, it is remembered and cared for. The Hopi believe that the people who lived and died here remain as spiritual guardians, watching over the site. Stories of Wupatki are passed on among the Navajo, Zuni, and other Native American tribes in the region.

Thanks to programs like Ancestral Lands and Vanishing Treasures, and the support of the Getty Foundation, we’re not just preserving old structures—we’re protecting the cultural heritage of Wupatki, ensuring its legacy continues to inspire and connect us all, now and in the future.

J. Roque: Thank you for joining me on this episode of ReCurrent. Join me in two weeks as we continue to explore the cultural heritage stories around us. Let's see what we can gain by keeping the past present.

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ReCurrent was written and produced by Jaime Roque; Audio Production by Jaime Roque with creative support from Zoe Goldman. Our Executive producer is Christopher Sprinkle.

For transcripts, images, and additional resources, visit getty dot edu slash podcasts slash recurrent.